397: Achieving Business Growth through Military Precision- with Ken Oliver

[00:00:41] Lori Highby: Hey, everybody, Lori Highby here. Welcome to the Social Capital Podcast. Our show notes are found at socialcapitalpodcast. com. To the listener, I want you to know that I appreciate you, and I'm thrilled to have you here for another episode. If there's ever anything that I can do to support you, reach out.

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Today's guest is Ken Oliver. Marine Corps veteran and owner and founder of Grunt Works junk Removal and Demolition. As the owner of Grunt Works, Ken oversees all aspects of the business from operations and marketing to customer service and partnerships. He leverages his skills in team building, training, and recruiting to create a culture of excellence, integrity, and respect.

He also works with local organizations such as Habitat for Humanity and Recyclers to recover items that can serve another purpose without going directly to landfills. He's proud to lead a company that is making a positive impact on the environment and society. Ken, welcome to the show!

[00:02:14] Ken Oliver: Hey, thanks, Lori.

It's good to be here. I appreciate the time.

[00:02:18] Lori Highby: Absolutely. Excited to chat more. And I'm intrigued by the background in the Marine Corps and a veteran. Can you share with our listeners how that experience has helped you with your journey as a business owner?

[00:02:31] Ken Oliver: Yeah, definitely. You know I spent six years in the Marine Corps. One of the best decisions I made was joining the Marine Corps. There was so many applicable lessons that come out of the experience there from just the training, the hard work, the teamwork, team building mission accomplishment, taking care of each other, all of those things. But I think really some of the things that apply that I think about almost daily when it comes to, you know, my time, what do I, what did I pull out of the Marine Corps?

Some of the things I think when it applies to a business are, I start with the end state in mind. And I think in the Marine Corps, we call it commander's intent. So every mission that you go on or any plan you put together starts with the end state. This is what the commander, whoever that commander is, could be a general or whoever. They say this is what we need to accomplish. Once we know what needs to happen, then you put the exhaustive plan together. And the Marine Corps everything has an acronym. And so in the Marine Corps it's a five paragraph order that puts all that plan together. It's SMEAC, S M E A C: situation, mission, execution, admin, logistics, command and signal. And so. Every decision that you make in life, you kind of run through those quickly. It could be in a split second that you run through all those things.

What's the situation? You know, when it comes to business, I'm assessing the current market conditions, the competitive landscape. What are my capabilities? And then when it comes to the mission and you put the plan to those, when it comes to the mission, am I defining clearly the objectives to all those, the customer groups involved. And when I talk about customer groups, I also am talking about, my internal team. I look at my employees as my customers as well. It's a different customer group, but I serve them just like I'm going to serve we want to serve our employees. Am I defining the clear objectives to them? And then there's execution, obviously outlining. I need to make sure that I'm outlining specific actions, timelines, responsibilities that are required to achieve whatever that mission is that needs to be executed.

And in business that I'm in, It does vary day to day, the size of the mission, the scope of the work. It could be a demolition project. It might be a, a full house. Clean out might be working for a commercial entity, a residential entity. So all those things vary and have different timelines, different lengths of job and those kinds of things. Those things need to be outlined specifically. But then then there's that back office stuff, the admin logistics addressing, you know, kind of addressing those. The resource allocation: who's going to do what, the budgeting, what do we have and all the other logistical considerations that are needed to have trucks running on the road and a couple employees, two man teams at least going out and doing jobs and then making sure the equipment is, is up to, is up to date and guys have everything they need. And then beyond that, it's a communication plan. To command the signal is the last is the C of SMEAC.

And that really is the communication, which is paramount in all aspects of business, you know. So it's the communicating again, the clear objectives, you know, decision making process, and having a contingency plan, because in the Marine Corps, in the military, you put this huge plan together kind of accounting for almost every, every, possible conceivable thing to go wrong so that there is a contingency, and you try to be as specific as possible. Detail oriented when it comes to putting that plan together. And then the same thing applies here, because we know that it could in the first minute of the day, things could go completely wrong.

But when you communicated the intent, this is what has to happen. Right? So we know the guys know this is what has to happen. And we have to make sure that the end of the day, this is what's done. And then the training and the communication, making sure that personnel are trained properly, they have the right equipment and they're taken care of.

And then there's really two main goals that you take out of that. I, that I took out of the Marine Corps, what I heard all the time. It's there's two goals. There's the first one is mission accomplishment. And the very second next thing that has to happen is troop welfare. So what does that mean?

You have to do the thing that you're doing, whether it's providing a product or service or whatever. The number one thing that you have to do, everything is people. Every single thing in life is people, families, people, businesses is people, whether it's providing a product or not, it starts with the people that are doing those things and making sure that they are taken care of and served as a customer group from whatever managerial level or ownership level that has to happen as well.

And that, that troop welfare piece of it is a very, it takes a backseat a little bit to mission accomplished, but, right there next to it. So I would say those are the lessons that of all the things that I've taken out that are applicable to what I do in business, those are the things that really resonate with me the most.

[00:07:20] Lori Highby: Yeah. Wow. That definitely makes a lot of sense and having a plan. And then I really liked the communication emphasis and making it clear what that primary objective is, because even though there's some defined tactics, there's always something that gets in the way and you have to, realign and, redirect and still try to achieve the same goal at the end of the day. Right?

[00:07:42] Ken Oliver: Yeah. Right. Exactly.

[00:07:43] Lori Highby: So what sets FrontWorks apart from your competition?

[00:07:47] Ken Oliver: Yeah, so I think, part of it is what we already kind of discussed. So it's the way that it's the structure of the business and how we go about it starting with people 1st, right? So the culture of the company sets the, sets the tone.

And so having a stable culture behind the scenes so that you can provide really high level service to the customers that you have in the community is where everything really starts. And then there's the training and development push of of mine. And what that looks like in our organization is not just me sitting, standing in front of a group of guys and telling them this is how we do it. This is what we do. But bringing in experts in different fields, whether it be safety, even driving or recycling what, you know, all these different aspects of this business that we're in is the junk removal business, really, I love to hone in on each specific portion of it. Bring an expert in if it's not me, and then have my guys and including myself learn from the best in the business and the kind of peripheral, businesses that we work with as well. So that's part of it.

The other part is, you know, what do we do? I mean, really, I don't know if it sets us apart. I know a lot of our competitors, I think really all of them do a lot of this, but we are really wanting to be good stewards of the things that we come into contact with. This is kind of our mantra. So what that looks like is if we remove an item from someone's home and it has any value at all in some aspect, whether it could be repurposed or reused or recycled, well, we're going to make that happen.

Some of those things when it comes to recycling, they do have a revenue, you know stream attached to it. Some of them just don't, that some of them are just, we know there's a recycled value. We're not going to get any monetary, value out of that, but we're going to be able to keep it out of the landfill. And that really is our goal.

So ultimately, some of the things that we do remove do make it to the landfill, but we do our darndest to make sure that we keep everything out of the landfills as possible. We live in a throwaway society, it seems like, and so many things so much out there just does not need to go to the landfill and be forgotten about because it can be repurposed, reused up cycle, you know, all those things.

And so we love doing that. We partner with church groups, Habitat for Humanity, as you mentioned on the intro, you know, we, we partner with other charities to help them out as well. And we will partner with a charity on different events so that if there are any proceeds that come out of them on. For instance, like e waste drive, any proceeds that come out of those, then we are, what sets us apart with those that we pick this charity for instance, I have a one that we have coming up with organization called Sierra Delta. We're looking, we're working on waste electronic waste drive where the proceeds will go to support Sierra Delta, which is a service dog for veterans organization.

And so those are some of the things that set us apart amongst other things.

[00:10:49] Lori Highby: Yeah. Wow. Lots, lots, lots of things going on all at once here. And I know that, you know, this is, a newer business that you've started up here. So what are your long term goals for GruntWorks?

[00:11:02] Ken Oliver: Yeah. So right now, as you mentioned, I mean, we are in infancy stage. We're often running real, we have, we're having a pretty screaming star. We've got, I've got some good employees that have a lot of industry experience. And so we're doing well so far, but this first period of time, I'm going to say, because I don't know if it's going to fit six months or a year, we're really, really working on the structure to make sure we have a solid structure process so that we can replicate this in other markets and serve other communities potentially. And so there are a lot of considerations when it comes to if we, if we go outside, outside of Wisconsin. And looking at whatever the regulations would be for collecting solid waste, for instance, or recycling and those kinds of things.

But that is those are the long term goal. So we're looking at scaling. And scaling right now looks like maybe we have a couple trucks in in other cities about the size of Milwaukee. So that's those are, you know, every state has a city or two the size of, of Milwaukee, and those are the communities that I really want to focus on.

I think I understand how to serve. Especially in the region in the Midwest. I think we have a good understanding of what is necessary and how to do, how to properly serve a community of our size. And so that is the long term goal. Putting the structure to that is really what I'm working on day to day right now so we can get there. And then ultimately it's not just going to be junk removal and demolition as an offering of what I'm wanting to do. I really have been in this home services thing for the last couple of years. And I really, I found it interesting. It's been about two and a half years now that I've been in home services and I, I, it's a, it's a very satisfying, fulfilling industry to be in.

And there are so many things that happen. In home services. And so there will be other offerings. We I'm honing in on what those things will look like long term. Right now we know junk removal and demolition for sure. And then there may be some other home services that are provided. But we're going to put that structure here in Milwaukee area first before we start taking it out on the road. So that's the goal. Yep.

[00:13:12] Lori Highby: Well, yeah, many years ago I worked on a research project about trying to identify other cities across the country that were of similar size and structure as Milwaukee. So I'll have to look that up for you.

[00:13:29] Ken Oliver: Find it. For sure. Yeah. I'd love to see that. I love to read that.

[00:13:33] Lori Highby: All right. So we're gonna, we're gonna move to some fun questions now. Ken, if you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more of less of, or differently with regards to your professional career?

[00:13:45] Ken Oliver: Well, I hear, yeah, that's a great question. I have thought about this. I think 20 year old Ken was a knucklehead probably.

I think when it comes to business, really, seeking out a mentor in business is something that I've missed out on. And that's why, I mean, that's how you and I know, people now that we know each other through groups where there are mentors in there for me. And I'm a 50 year old guy now, and I, never really had that mentorship.

So I would say seek that out and I do tell, the young guys in my life now, I do say seek that out. You know, and if it's not going to be me all the time for these young guys that are in my life or my kids and that kind of thing, but certainly I think in business, it's good to have someone who has more experience and more wisdom, and just in business and industry in general, so that you can maybe avoid some of the pitfalls and have some, you know, you have some ideas of your own, bounce them off someone who knows more. That's what I would say.

[00:14:43] Lori Highby: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, when I look back at my young, ignorant 20 year old self, I thought I knew all the answers to the world and didn't, didn't need any support from anyone because I could figure it out. But yeah, I wish I had stronger mentorship and guidance and was more open to listening when I was that age.

[00:15:01] Ken Oliver: Yes, yes.

[00:15:03] Lori Highby: Ken, I'm going to give you the opportunity to interview me with something you'd like to ask me.

[00:15:07] Ken Oliver: Oh boy. All right. So that's a good call. That's, that's good. You put me on the spot here.

[00:15:14] Lori Highby: Well, you get to put me on the spot at the same time.

[00:15:16] Ken Oliver: Yeah. Well, I guess, you know, in, in your world, marketing world, what are the biggest challenges that you see from... You know, I'm all about business development right now, so this is on my mind all the time, right? I'm looking to really grow my customer base because it's, we're so new.

So in your world, how does that look? How does business development look and what are the biggest challenges and pitfalls that you're seeing?

[00:15:45] Lori Highby: Wow. Yeah, that's big question and and great question. Thank you for asking it. So business development, you know, we're, we're heavy B2B focused.

And so, it's an investment that people are making and there isn't an immediate return on investment when working with us because it's oftentimes that longterm establishing trust in establishing the brand in the marketplace for companies and organizations. So it is, a long, slow sales process.

So the approach that we take is very much focused on thought leadership and showcasing our expertise in order to establish that trust. So that when our ideal client is in enough world of pain and hurt, they feel confident in moving forward to start doing business with us. Now, that being said where there's also a lot of challenges that we face because I would say our industry, especially when it comes to digital marketing it's fairly low barrier to entry.

So, you know, someone could have not even having any education, like formal education, but just say, Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to start being a social media manager, or I'm going to build websites. And, and they do that, they don't understand, strategic positioning and they don't understand the true value of the services that they're offering.

And so some companies that are ready to move forward and hire, you know, marketing, digital marketing services look at the price point as, Oh, that's, that's lower investment than what this other company is willing to charge. But then at the end of the day, they're not happy with the results.

And so that, that creates additional barriers for me to really prove the expertise and the value that we're able to bring at the end of the day. In addition to it's a long sales cycle. So yeah, those are, those are the challenges that I'm facing.

And I also know there's AI, which is significantly disrupting our industry. But it goes back to understanding the strategy around the tools. You know, you can, AI can build a website for you, but how do you know it's, it's being done the right way for like a Google search engine optimization perspective. How do you know that it's conveying the right message? It's going to connect and resonate with your ideal customer. That it's set up for proper, you know, conversion optimization. So how much do you want to trust the AI tools versus looking at, you know, the expertise and being strategic about the moves that you're making to really, you Get your brand in front of that ideal customer.

[00:18:28] Ken Oliver: Boy, so many questions out of what you just said that I could never follow up with you.

[00:18:32] Lori Highby: I throw them at me, throw them at me. Let's go.

[00:18:35] Ken Oliver: My first question that I wrote down was, okay, I know that you guys are, Are primarily B2B, right? But tell me, what's the difference in strategy when it's B2B compared to B2C? And how do you, how do you distinguish that focus for you and your customers?

[00:18:54] Lori Highby: Well, I'd say typically from B2B versus B2C... Because we do have some B2C clients and more times than not, it's a lower price point from a decision making process and it's, the B2C is typically a faster turn on making that investment as opposed with a few exceptions, like a car or a house, like those are big major investments, but you know, kind of one and done services, or even you're, you may be looking for that high, like return rate with a B2C customer.

[00:19:24] Ken Oliver: Yeah.

[00:19:24] Lori Highby: So there's different strategies and tactics that you put into play to stay top of mind for kind of those types of things so that when the pain is strong, they know, you know, you're the only person I go to. Or, you know, if someone's saying, Hey, do you know anyone that does this? You know, your brand is always top of mind. And you're just staying in front of them.

[00:19:43] Ken Oliver: Yeah.

[00:19:43] Lori Highby: B2B there's definitely similar concepts, but more times than not on the B2B side of things, there's an average of five decision makers that are involved. So it's not just one person that's making that decision. Because you've got, you know, a leadership team or a department that's involved.

There's one person that's ultimately saying yes, but you have other people that are influencing that decision. So you kind of have to make sure that you're touching your messaging and understanding the pains of all the decision makers involved.

And it's typically a longer sales process as I spoke to earlier. So you have to understand, you know, that quick buy, quick decision turn around philosophy. Like I need an answer now and I'm really ready to buy today or in the next 24 hours versus B2B. I'm doing my research, I'm evaluating my options, I'm having internal conversations, and then I'm making a buying decision.

So it's just longer approach.

[00:20:37] Ken Oliver: What are the, I mean, how about the channel differences? You know, the B2B, B2C. Oftentimes, I think what people would think primarily industry like mine, people are going to be on Google. They're going to say, yeah, I want this thing done today or tomorrow, and it's going to be a low cost, probably, and it's going to be a homeowner that wants this thing removed and that kind of thing.

It's click, call, schedule, you have it done. In the B2B what channel, you know, is it, what channels are you using? It's not Google. It's not Google. It's, or it's, or is it, and what does that look like and what's the difference?

[00:21:09] Lori Highby: Well, every customer journey is going to be different, you know. So it depends on, and that's why we're big advocates of doing research first to understand that ideal customer and where they're hanging out.

So, you know, some people might be listening to podcasts. And that's how they get their information. And, and then they have their loyal listeners to some channels. So they, those are deemed to be, to be influencers. Me personally, I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. You know, some folks sometimes it is Facebook depending on the culture, the industry, you know, and where, what, what we try to do is find out where is that ideal customer and everyone that looks like that ideal customer ultimately hanging out and who's influencing their buying decisions.

There isn't a one size fits all.

[00:21:55] Ken Oliver: Yeah. No, good answer. AI. We could talk about for...

[00:22:00] Lori Highby: Yeah, we're not even going to go down that path.

[00:22:07] Ken Oliver: I'm sure you're leveraging it some way and I'm trying to figure out how to make sense of it in my world as well. I think it's in an inevitability. And if you're not using it and understand how it's used, I think you're going to get left in the dust.

[00:22:21] Lori Highby: Oh, without a doubt.

You have to be using it. 100%. So well, let's see. Any, any final words of wisdom that you'd like to leave with our listeners here, Ken?

[00:22:29] Ken Oliver: Listen, I, here's what I always say, and I get this, this turns a lot ahead sometimes, but this is, this is what I would always say to people, whether in in the boardroom or anywhere that I've been in my past: People ask, have asked me. You know, where do I, when it comes to manager management of employees and, and leadership and service to customers, that kind of thing. We're, you know, what's your philosophy. And I, I'll say this and it may sound a little touchy feely coming from a Marine in particular, but I start with love for the people that are in my organization first.

And what I mean by that is when I have someone that comes in that I'm working closely with, shoulder to shoulder, it's an immediate you know, I say, I say it to the guys almost every day. I love you. Thanks for what you're doing. And that's, that's where I start. And I think that if it goes a long way to, to build trust and respect for each other, I'm not a guy who says you have to earn my respect.

I give love and respect freely. And that's what we bring to our team into the, into the customer base out there as well. So it may seem a little bit odd, I think sometimes to hear, but that's what I would leave us with today.

[00:23:36] Lori Highby: Oh, I think that's great. And really take care of your people and they should take care of you. Right.

[00:23:41] Ken Oliver: Yeah.

[00:23:43] Lori Highby: If anyone is interested in getting in contact with you, what's the best way that they can reach you?

[00:23:48] Ken Oliver: Yeah, so our phone number, the best way to reach us is, is by phone number is 414 41 GRUNT, G R U N T. You can reach, reach us there, or by email is probably best is info at gruntworksjunkremoval. com.

[00:24:05] Lori Highby: Cool. And we will include all that information in our show notes. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Ken.

[00:24:11] Ken Oliver: Thanks, Lori. It was a great conversation. I really appreciate you having me on as a guest.

[00:24:14] Lori Highby: Absolutely. All right, this wraps up our episode of Social Capital. A huge thank you to Ken for taking the time to connect with us.

If you have a burning marketing or relationship question, reach out. I'd love to answer it on the show. And as mentioned before, let's connect on LinkedIn. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Hope you enjoyed today's show, and I want you to go out there and get noticed.