388: Storytelling & Trust in Digital Marketing- with Lisa Apolinski

[00:00:23] Lori Highby: Hey everybody. Lori Highby here. Welcome to the Social Capital Podcast. Our show notes are found at socialcapitalpodcast.com. To you, the listener, I want you to know that I appreciate you and I'm thrilled to have you here for another episode. If there's ever anything that I could do to support you, please reach out.

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This show is sponsored by Keystone Click, a strategic digital marketing agency that believes in order to successfully market to your ideal customer, you have to first understand your customer. Learn more at KeystoneClick. com.

The topic of relationships ties in very closely with marketing. That's why I'm bringing on marketing experts with a variety of backgrounds for you to learn and grow from. Today's guest is Lisa Apolinski. Lisa is the CEO of Three Dog Write. She's a content coach teaching business owners how to use their content to attract more right fit clients so they can experience the positive ROI on marketing and business development investments.

She has written several books, including Persuaded with a Digital Content Story, named one of the top content marketing books in the world, and most recently as a co author of The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever, as featured number one on Amazon's new releases. Congrats on that.

She's been featured in Forbes and the New York Times for her expertise on digital storytelling and has been dubbed America's digital content futurist. Lisa, welcome to the show.

[00:02:31] Lisa Apolinski: Thank you so much for having me on Lori. I feel like we talked so long ago about doing this and I'm so excited. It finally came to realization.

[00:02:38] Lori Highby: Happy that it's finally happening as well because you and I are going to have an amazing

conversation no doubt.

[00:02:44] Lisa Apolinski: Absolutely.

[00:02:45] Lori Highby: So let's dive into some of the questions here. What is one of the top trends you're seeing with business growth strategy?

[00:02:52] Lisa Apolinski: When I thought about these questions when we talked a few months ago, my answer actually has changed, which is pretty interesting.

The focus that a lot of companies are using right now with business growth, it still has to do with content and storytelling, but it's the concept of leveraging AI to make content creation faster, easier, and more complete. Now this doesn't mean that we just take information that we get from Chat GPT and send it out into the universe.

And there's actually a term for that now, which I learned this week. Synthetic media, which means that you didn't create it. Synthetic. So for businesses that are looking to grow, content is absolutely going to be a key component to that. And connecting with your audiences through your content and storytelling.

We're trying to establish relationships, we're trying to establish trust, and people buy from people they know, like, and trust. That's never going to change. And the fastest way I think for companies to start to really leverage their content, especially if they don't feel like they're good writers and a lot of people don't.

There's no shame in leveraging AI to help create that content, but it should only be used as the tool in which it was intended. When we look at AI, it's about gathering information, almost like you have a hundred market research assistants pulling information for you, but you are the authority. You are the subject matter expert.

This is your area of genius. So based on the information that's pulled, what insight can you add to it? What thought provoking information can you add to it? What content can you add to your pull of information to make it unique, to make it a value to your audience, something that they have not thought of or something that could disrupt your industry and how do you add your brand DNA, your personal brand purpose into your content to be able to make that connection across digital assets.

[00:05:16] Lori Highby: Yeah, that's solid. And I love that phrase synthetic media. I was just chatting with my gal, my assistant, this morning and some other folks. It's obvious when something was just a copy and paste out of AI on social media.

Now it's very obvious. And I think more and more people are going to start to realize, Oh I'm not as interested in the synthetic media, but there's nothing wrong with using these tools to help to create efficiencies. That's obviously the number one goal, but to give you some inspiration and ideation, but I love what you're saying about like putting your own perspective and spin and voice on it. That's so important.

[00:05:52] Lisa Apolinski: Yeah, absolutely. And if I could add to that, you know, if you think about it, everyone has access to chat GPT. Everyone else has access to Bard or Bing. So I could put in the same questions and get almost the same content. So you reiterating what I can already pull doesn't help me at all.

So the question is, what else can I add to that content to really make that content unique? And to help my audience get from where they are now to where they want to go.

[00:06:25] Lori Highby: You know, you talked about the know, like, and trust, and I am a big fan of that philosophy and thinking. But what do you think are the biggest mistakes you see businesses make with their content when they're trying to focus on that trust factor?

[00:06:39] Lisa Apolinski: So it's funny because I actually had a conversation with a client today about this some feedback she was getting from her mentor who he is heavily into sales and I'm not saying that sales is bad. They're simply different ways of being.

He was pushing her to put all sorts of call to actions and you don't have a call to action in your posts on social media. And I said, well, hold on a second. What are you creating your content for if you don't have clarity around what it is that you are hoping your content will do besides drive revenue?

Because we all know the content really should be helping you to make more money, but how do you get there is the question. If you're constantly pushing calls to action or take this next step or sign up now or click on this link. It feels very sell-y and it feels very icky. And people know how social media posts work.

People know how websites work. People know how the internet works. It can be a lot more subtle, where people are engaging with you through your content and learning about you, and then from there, allowing them to decide how they want to take the next step.

Do they visit your website? Do they do a Google search on you? Do they attend a webinar you're in or a podcast? Do they sign up for your newsletter? Let them decide. Don't shove call to actions in their face where it's unnecessary. You can certainly guide them. But I think, you know and Mark Schaefer talked about this.

The customer is the marketer now. The customer is deciding the path. And if you think you're in charge of their digital path, that thought process and that ability has absolutely gone by the wayside because there's so many ways for people to engage with you and your content.

So if I would drill it down into one big issue that I see people making now as a mistake is trying to control the digital journey versus allowing your audience, who's very savvy to discover you in a way that's right for them. And that allowance of letting them have control that absolutely builds that trust factor that we talked about.

[00:09:07] Lori Highby: I think there's a lot of good nuggets that you shared there. And one of the things, I've said this for a long time, it's not sell me media, it's social media. And it's all about adding value and giving the people what they want to help them through that buying decision journey, which is heavy education, right? And that's where that trust is founded.

[00:09:30] Lisa Apolinski: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think I'm discover you at their own pace to o. I'm going to give another example. So we had a company come to the house for flooring. And the guy who we talked to was great and there was no pressure and just provided as much information as possible.

And it was like whenever you're ready, let us know. And then I started to get the texts and the emails every single day saying, "what can we do to get you to order? What can we do to get this across the finish line?" And it's like, can you back off?

Yeah, I got busy. Maybe we tabled it because we got to fix our roof first. And we're planning on doing it, just not immediately. It was in your face, and they're saying, well, it's outbound marketing and we're helping you. You're not helping anybody. You're helping yourself. Don't lie. You're doing that for you.

You're not doing it for me. So when you're thinking about outbound communication and stuff, if they had sent one email saying, we hope you had all your questions answered. And if there's anything else we can do to help you, please let us know. That would have been great.

Send, send, send trying to get you to convert. That no longer works and it really turns off people. And I haven't responded because I'm afraid that if I respond, it's going to be a floodgate of further communication that I don't want right now because we're delaying our purchase. It's not that we're not going to do it, but we're waiting because we have something else that's taking priority. And that's okay. It feels very swarmy, you know, it feels very yucky.

[00:11:10] Lori Highby: When that starts happening, I lose interest. Even if I was interested initially, I lose interest. Like you said, you gotta let the customer move at their own pace. There's some things you can do to try to move it along, but you don't want to force that to happen. So let's talk about something positive here. What is one thing that businesses can work on in their content today to help improve these relationships with prospects?

[00:11:32] Lisa Apolinski: Add in stories. People are hardwired for stories.

I don't know if you noticed, but I've told you, I think three stories so far. They don't have to be long, but it helps to share information, show how it's relevant. Because people are hardwired for stories, they absorb that information a lot faster and they hold on to it a lot longer. So if you have information that you need to provide on how the journey would be to work with you, put it in a story format, talk about a former customer or client who is similar and their journey and how they made it to the finish line.

And in my persuaded with the digital content story, I actually give you a six step formula to create persuasive stories within your content. You're not selling, you're not pushing features and benefits, and you're making it relevant to your audience. Again, it has value to your audience because it's the information that they want, not the information that you think you need to push.

So when you add in stories, it also just makes the conversation more enjoyable, makes the content more enjoyable to consume. And with all the content that's available today, having storytelling is, to me, the fastest way to get your content read and to get it out of that content noise and actually show up for your audience.

[00:13:08] Lori Highby: Yeah, and one thing that really stood out that you said was make it easy for them to consume because everyone just has this quick scrolling mentality and if it's heavy and thick and hard to digest, they're going to skip over. But if it's really easy, quick storytelling, bite sized chunks, that's consumable.

[00:13:26] Lisa Apolinski: Absolutely. Yeah, totally agree with that, Lori.

[00:13:28] Lori Highby: All right, we're going to have some fun questions now. So if you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more of less of or differently with regards to your professional career?

[00:13:38] Lisa Apolinski: I would tell my 20 year old self that... so I started in corporate America, I worked for some of the largest companies in the world.

And I had this belief that I had to work 50, 60, 70 hours a week. That somehow in order to show my worth, I had to kill myself with the output of work. I would tell my 20 to 25 year old self that it is not about being on a gerbil wheel and just trying to keep up. That it is okay to have boundaries.

And to set them and say, No, this is a boundary and to respect your own personal time and have that that work life balance. I wish I had known that before. I could tell you some horror stories of inappropriate times that I had a boss calling me to go back to the office to work on something that really was not necessary.

And I didn't know about going, you know, I'm going to just draw a boundary here and say no and just push back. And also that don't worry about the job title. We're worrying more about the impact you are having in the organization and what you are learning in the process. If you're not gaining insight or skills or knowledge out of what you're doing, it's probably too small for you and it may be in your best interest to look at moving into something that allows you to have that growth.

[00:15:24] Lori Highby: Yeah, I think that's sound advice for sure. Yeah, and just the balance, but also focusing more. I think there's a balance of focusing on your, your own personal goals and what you need to do to achieve those goals, not just from a professional standpoint, but from a personal standpoint too.

And your goals, if you want them to align with, you know, the organization that you're in, because you believe in the organization, that's fine. But yeah, putting yourself first and putting some boundaries out there.

[00:15:57] Lisa Apolinski: And your value is not inherent to your job title because I had some, I'm going to just say bullshit job titles.

But honestly, I was working at two to three levels above. And I had that imposter syndrome, like I thought it was crappy. I thought it was not good enough. And once I went out on my own, I was like, Oh, that's not true at all. I actually made these people boatloads of money. And it's unfortunate that they didn't recognize that.

And in fact, because I was so good at what I did and what I do I have had former colleagues come back to me in other roles and hire me as a consultant. And they say, you know, I'm coming back to you because, I know you can get me out of this jammer. I know you can get me to this revenue goal.

I know you can't because I've seen you do it. And I'm like, awesome.

[00:16:53] Lori Highby: Love that. All right. I'm going to give you the opportunity to interview me. What's something you'd like to ask me, Lisa?

[00:17:00] Lisa Apolinski: Oh, awesome. So Lori, can you tell me your origin story? Like the moment that you decided that being a podcaster, being in this role in this present moment, can you go back in time a little bit and tell me where that shift happened for you in your career.

[00:17:20] Lori Highby: Oh, wow. There's lots of big shifts that have happened in my career.

I mean, starting my business 15 years ago that was a big, there was a big pivot point that kind of gave me the confidence. And maybe a little bit too confident because I would say I was young and naive at the same time, but the quick story was that I was working for another agency and the partner I was working under got into a motorcycle accident.

And I was in a spot that could easily say, I need to get out of here and run, or I'm going to jump in and do whatever I can to help fill this void. And I took the latter and so young individual early twenties at the time, and the other owners basically just said, do whatever you can to just keep the client happy. And not only did I keep him happy, but I grow that book of business. So I felt confident in my abilities and that's kind of what springboarded me into entrepreneurship. That's a short story.

From a podcasting perspective... and you know this as an owner and a leader, you need a thought leadership channel. And I was blogging, but I wasn't doing it consistently. I dabbled with video and I was too focused on how things looked versus the message that was being communicated. And then when a friend asked me to be a guest on his podcast, and I finally decided to do it, I realized it's probably my favorite medium to create content on because it's more conversational but you can still showcase your expertise and it's more authentic. I felt too, as opposed to blogging and video where both of them require time and editing and time. For this. I just try to be like, Hey, let's just have the conversation and share thoughts, opinions, ideas, knowledge, and record it. Share it with the world. So that's a little backstory. Yeah.

[00:19:13] Lisa Apolinski: Awesome. And you know, I think it's funny that you and I kind of leaned into the same story about, well, we were young in our twenties, so we didn't know anything. And I have had to mentally correct myself on that. Not only because I know you were absolutely a genius with what you were doing and we are so good at dismissing our genius, right? But to you know, I and I've actually I wrote a blog about this that, you know, It doesn't matter if you're ten or a hundred, there's still so much value that you can bring to the table. And that's where I came up with my magic word or phrase that digital marketing is like a climb with no summit. Wherever you are, you still have a hundred percent to go.

So don't worry about it. Just keep going.

[00:19:59] Lori Highby: I love that. And I appreciate you kind of acknowledging that I wasn't young and ignorant. It was just I knew a lot of things. I just, there was a lot more for me to learn and experience.

[00:20:09] Lisa Apolinski: And there's still going to be a lot more for us to learn and experience Lori. So much stuff is changing so rapidly. There are some times where I'm like, holy crap, how am I going to keep up with this? And I'm like, you know what? Treat it like a sandwich, one bite at a time.

[00:20:24] Lori Highby: Love that. Any final words of wisdom you'd like to share with our listeners?

[00:20:29] Lisa Apolinski: You know, I always tell people it's okay to fail. And if you don't try something, you'll never know if it's going to work. And especially if it's not something that's been done before, it probably will work because it's so new. So be bold. Go out there and try a new type of content. Go on a podcast. Even if you fail miserably, it doesn't matter because every time you do something, you'll get more confident and you'll get better at that. And it'll really cascade through the rest of anything that you do. So it's okay to fall flat on your face and believe me, I have done it and I still do, and that's okay.

[00:21:16] Lori Highby: You have to be willing to fail to be able to grow. I think that's so important.

And I saw an image or a meme the other day that says when babies are learning to walk, they fall constantly, but that's how you end up succeeding is by failing number of times before you're actually walking. So I think that's great.

[00:21:39] Lisa Apolinski: Absolutely. And the other thing that I would tell people, and I tell my coaching clients this all the time, and it's, it's hard to accept it sometimes. Yes, there are top influencers in your industry that are in your eyes, they're superstars. They are still human.

They are still looking for recognition. They are still looking for people to say that was awesome and it really resonated with me. Very few influencers I have found, and I primarily play on LinkedIn, have been like, go away peasant. They're looking for the same recognition as all of us. And, you have an area of genius where you can give a viewpoint that maybe isn't necessarily in alignment with the influencer, maybe it adds to it. Maybe it brings up a valid alternate point. Don't be afraid to decide, Oh, this influencer. I like what he or she writes and then start to post and have a conversation with them. Because not only are you then helping the influencer in their community and providing that support, you're also learning from that community. So to me, it's a win win.

[00:22:52] Lori Highby: I think it's huge and I do my best to always engage with content that I either agreed with. Or sometimes if I don't agree with it, but if I felt it add value at some level to my life, I always try to engage with it. I think that's so important to let people know that you appreciate the content that they thoughtfully created and published and shared with their network.

[00:23:14] Lisa Apolinski: Exactly. And you know what, if they end up being a little bit of a diva, then you just don't engage with them anymore and move on. And anyone who's like that, their community is going to shrink on itself because that's not a sustainable practice. Again, people are looking for that connection and community and everyone has value.

[00:23:35] Lori Highby: Lisa, if anyone was interested in getting in contact with you, what's the best way that they can reach you?

[00:23:40] Lisa Apolinski: So they can either send me an email, Lisa at 3 dog write. com. It's the number three dog D-O-G write, like write with a pen, W-R-I-T-E.com. You can check out my new website at three dog write.com.

And I would also highly encourage you to connect with me on LinkedIn and to subscribe to my newsletter. Every month I am sending out new information. I do a monthly Q and a webinar where I pull from that expert and that conversation and bring it into the LinkedIn newsletter.

So there is constantly content tips, advice, free coaching, you name it. The focus of my brand is to be relentlessly helpful. And so I'm going to help you whether you want it or not.

[00:24:30] Lori Highby: All right. Well, include all of that information in the show notes. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Lisa.

[00:24:36] Lisa Apolinski: Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me, Lori. This was awesome.

[00:24:39] Lori Highby: This wraps up our episode of Social Capital. A huge thank you to Lisa for taking the time to connect with us. If you have a burning marketing or relationship question, just reach out. I'd love to answer it on the show. And as mentioned before, let's connect on LinkedIn. Connect with Lisa, connect with me. We're both looking forward to hearing from you. I hope you enjoyed today's show and I encourage you to go out there and get noticed.